BizTech Superhero

\Joshua McNary [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the BizTech superhero, the podcast that empowers you to unleash the technology superpowers within your business. I'm your host, Joshua McNary. I'm joined by today's superhero, Cait Fitzpatrick, co owner and lead strategist at BWB, a female founded branding agency based in New York. I'm looking forward to talking to Cait about branding tech and how AI is helping her entrepreneurial clients. Cait, welcome to the show.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:00:28]:
Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Joshua McNary [00:00:30]:
So for folks just meeting you for the first time, could you share a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:00:36]:
Absolutely. So I'm Cait. My pronouns are sheher, and I colead BWB as Joshua mentioned. And we're a branding and brand building agency. So we help entrepreneurs and small businesses grow their businesses or build them from the ground up, thinking about things like strategy, naming, storytelling, making sure their messages are aligned with their beliefs. And then once we do all that great strategy, we help them bring it to life through things like visual and verbal branding. So helping you write your messaging, helping you launch your website, design it, and all the other fun stuff that people need when they're launching a business.

Joshua McNary [00:01:22]:
That's great. That's awesome. Could you tell us a little bit more about, like, who your ideal client is and and who you actually you know, what kind of things you've been doing? We've known each other for a little while, and we've had those kind of conversations before, but let's share that with our audience.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:01:34]:
Absolutely. So taking one step backward, when I first started my professional career, I worked at a big communications agency, and we worked with Fortune 105 companies, really big organizations that were looking to communicate about what they did, you know, everything from, like, crisis to PR to executive visibility, you know, brand campaigns, all that great stuff. And what I learned through working there, and I was there for ten years, which is a lifetime. Yes. What? A long time. Right? What I learned through all of that was a ton of great information, and I wanted to bring some of those skills and offerings to smaller businesses Because like you, I have a very entrepreneurial spirit, and I always love talking to people, you know, since forever about their ideas and about how they, you know, wanna take a hobby and make it a business and all things like that. So, when I left the agency, one of the driving factors for that was I wanted to work with smaller businesses and individuals and go beyond you know, this is our corporate playbook, but actually work with people who were starting from scratch and wanting to understand how they could link their ideas and their goals to a viable business. So our ideal clients are people who are either in the phase of identifying what they want to build or people that maybe have a business and are looking to refresh it, realign.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:03:11]:
For example, we just worked with a client who has been in business for almost forty years, and they had never redone any of their story or to to bring them to current day with who they are now versus your when they launched. Right? So with the evolution of, of us as individuals and the world and, you know, technology as we're talking about today

Joshua McNary [00:03:35]:
Yes.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:03:35]:
There's this this need to refresh and revisit where we're where we've come from to make sure that it's, you know, telling the story we wanna be telling.

Joshua McNary [00:03:45]:
Absolutely. Well, that's a great, great mission. I think, you know, we we we, get along because we have shared values in in helping, companies like that and and doing it in a way that is authentic to them, and bringing them to speed, which, you know, certainly is in the technology vein, which, again, is why we're here. You're today's superhero around technology. So could you tell us a bit about how you're incorporating technology into your work here in 2025 as we record this?

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:04:10]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, one thing when I was thinking about that question, I would not be able to have the business that I have without having the proper technology. One reason being that when I left the big corporate world, I decided that I wanted to have more of a mobile lifestyle and be able to work from different places and really immerse myself in different cultures. And I always thought that that was such a almost like a missed opportunity in big companies. And one of the roles that I played back then was in the new business role. So we were always doing pitches, whether it's a proposal or an in person, you know, whole dog and pony show. And Yes.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:04:57]:
You know how that goes. And one of the things that, I really liked doing was having the time and space to actually put myself in the shoes of that ideal opportunity. So I remember one time we had a big opportunity that was in the wellness space, and I said the only way we're gonna learn about this is if we actually go do it. So I went and interviewed doctors. I went and visited different med spas, and I really became their ideal client by Yes. Learning about what they offered. And, so that's just something that's always been really important to me is, you know, finding ways to use technology. It's great when you can work from the comfort of your own home, but, also, it's really important to be able to meet your clients or potential clients where they are.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:05:49]:
And, you know, obvious things like Zoom. You and I are on Zoom right now, and that's a great way to connect and build trust and build connection. And, also, there's the need to use those technologies to really immerse ourselves in in someone's space as well.

Joshua McNary [00:06:06]:
Well, I mean, I I I find going just to the coffee shop down the street from my office is I need to do it more. Right? Because I bump into people here and there's and there's conversations that are had and and it also puts you in a different mind space just mentally. Right? If I recall, I feel like one time you or you've shared with me that you've went off and did, like, retreats and done done things other places just like from a work perspective, not even to meet necessarily with our clients. And I've done those kind of, functions as well. So not only as, what you're talking about, which is great, actually going out and connecting with your customers and clients and and or or acting like them to under really understand their branding, which is so important to what you do, to really be able to understand what the customer's thinking. But then also as individuals as in our own productivity, that space shifting, that the technology allows us to do is is, is pretty is pretty amazing as well. It can be can be make you even more productive.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:07:01]:
Right. And and I think you bring up a really good point in that, and you you alluded to it earlier too about values. And something that was really important to us when we were building BWB is making sure that the values that we hold individually, me and my business partner, Casey Carroll, as well as the values of the business itself, was really defining what those are. And one of the things that we really value, you know, in addition to having flexibility, which, you know, remote work allows, is things like care and rest and

Joshua McNary [00:07:34]:
Mhmm.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:07:34]:
Recharging. And whether it's us holding space for our clients to do that in a retreat setting or, like you mentioned, us being able to take the time to go do that for ourselves is so important, and it's something that we talk about a lot with our clients. You know, a lot of times, we'll meet someone and they're telling us about all the actions they're taking. And then they're saying at the same time, I'm really feeling burnt out. I'm really feeling exhausted.

Joshua McNary [00:08:02]:
Mhmm.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:08:03]:
I have no creative energy or momentum. And so sometimes our advice is, how about you do nothing? How about you take

Joshua McNary [00:08:11]:
a break? Yeah. Because Make some space.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:08:14]:
Yeah. Make some space because you're it's really hard to feel really creative and energized when you're exhausted, or just tired or feeling like you're constantly in catch up mode. So, you know, I was thinking about this a lot leading up to this conversation around how in some ways when you think about rest and technology, they can feel in opposition to each other. But, actually, I think that the reframe there is that technology can actually allow us to have more of that free time and rest and support it if we're really looking at the whole landscape and where we're coming from.

Joshua McNary [00:08:56]:
I use the word strategy a lot, and I know you do too. The idea of being strategic about your technology and using it for good, not not bad, not being pulled down by it by the technology, drawing on us, you know, the the endless doomscrolling or the the, pop ups constantly distracting us from what's really important. That is the, you know, that's the secret sauce. And it's hard because the technology is constantly changing around us. And, of course, it's a lot of it is built, especially in the marketing and the social media world and such to draw our attention as it is designed to do. And that Right. Bleed bleeds into your work a little bit. I'm sure we could maybe discuss that.

Joshua McNary [00:09:36]:
But I guess with regards to your business, how are you using maybe that strategic way of thinking about technology and that, the overarching concept you were just talking about? How are you using that to help you decide what tools to use or what solutions to look at in your existing existing tools that you are using within your business?

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:09:56]:
Yeah. You know, it took some time to really iron out all of those details. I remember, Casey and I, we usually meet once a well, we meet many times throughout the year, but we usually have a dedicated time each year to have a planning session where we sort of look back at what we did the previous year, see what worked, what we wanna shift, and then set some goals for moving forward. And one of the things that we talk about a lot in those meetings, but also frequently in general, is, like, what are the pain points that we're coming up against? For example, there was a time way back when when we first started our business that we didn't have a calendar tool for people to schedule their own meetings, and that became such a burden with going back and forth. And one in one of those planning meetings, I remember us saying, like, why don't we have a calendar tool? Let's just set one up. And we set it up in that moment, and from that day on, we never looked back. It's so helpful. But it's little things like that that can feel really burden burdensome.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:11:02]:
And, you know, when you're busy and you're in the thick of it and you're moving through your day, especially when you're in client service and you have, you know, a lot of emails coming in and different things like that, you can say, oh, I'll do that later. I'll deal with that later. But actually spending the time and taking the making the commitment to setting some of those boundaries, like, through the use of a technology like a calendar tool has been really, you know, imperative for us. And I will also say in response to what you were naming earlier around social media, that's something that we have talked a lot about with our clients. And and what I mean by that is them having a business and figuring out how do I go into these digital platforms and represent myself that feels true, that feels authentic, that feels aligned with my mission and vision and values without it taking over. And that's something that we could have a, you know, a whole conversation around. You know, that could take us a couple hours, couple episodes. But but the net of that is how can people figure out their own mix that feels like they're not conforming to, like, air quotes what they're supposed to do Right.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:12:21]:
But actually finding the tools that can support them, that they feel in alignment with, and that can be sustainable for them.

Joshua McNary [00:12:30]:
Yes. That's a that's a big topic there. But being being ethical around the tools and then being your authentic self, we use that term again, the authentic side of things. I I think that is a that is a problem set that we could spend some, some quality time discussing some time, that is technology related, of course, but it has to do more with, you know, making sure you're you're that idea of kind of niching, that traditional term of niching in marketing. But it also has to do with, not just doing it because everyone else has to you have to do it. You know, I mean, there you do have to do it somehow in some way. You have to be seen. But, but getting getting there in a way that is is, makes sense for you and and you feel good about it, which is I think where a lot of the disdain around these tools, comes from is is not feeling good about it, feeling icky.

Joshua McNary [00:13:15]:
So finding a way to not feel good about it. I I also wanna go back to your calendar example and that idea of of just kind of getting to the frustration point where you're gonna just go do the thing. So Yeah. Sometimes technology seems daunting and sometimes it is. I mean, it can be, based based on what you're actually trying to solve for. But, so often those those big big tasks that seem like they're big are not as bad as you think. And it just getting the ball rolling or maybe doing the first step of just signing up and doing the initial configuration then leads to other unlocks. And then like this case, you are able you're gonna naturally, when you set up with these countering tools, you're going to have to set some criteria on there.

Joshua McNary [00:13:53]:
And maybe you never thought about the criteria before. Maybe that's part of why you're overwhelmed because you're taking meetings willy nilly. You know, there's there's other benefits of the technology outside of simply the technology that sometimes creates a framework for improvement.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:14:06]:
You're absolutely right about that. And I think that almost, like, domino effect of what it opens up or some may say, like, rabbit hole that they go down is also super valuable, especially for small business owners who are creating the structure and also the product or the service that they're selling. And, it's something that we help people navigate, but also and I can't emphasize this enough. We recommend hiring those experts when you need them. So we have, for example, a web developer who we work with all the time. And there are some things that I can change on my own on my website. But then when it comes to something more complicated, I call Brooke and ask her to help me solve it. Right? So the investment in your own tools, I think people sometimes underestimate it or think like, oh, I don't wanna spend $20 a month on this tool, whatever it might be.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:15:05]:
But, actually, the amount of time that it saves you, the amount of structure that it can provide to you, Also, opening up some of those other doors of like, for example, if you're using a, some sort of CRM, it may open up the conversation around, oh, you know what? We should really get our act together of how we wanna communicate on a regular basis to clients. So now I have their emails in here, but how do I wanna use so it it it does have a lot of other, benefits beyond the tool itself. And I I wanna give you credit too for this conversation because I remember you and I talked a couple years ago, and you said, like, let's have a conversation. Come to me with what you're trying to solve for.

Joshua McNary [00:15:51]:
Mhmm. Mhmm. And

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:15:52]:
then we can talk about where to go from there because I think sometimes people think the tool is gonna solve the problem. Mhmm. But, actually, it it can help solve the problem, but the implementation and how you actually rally around the use of that tool is is equally as important, if not more important.

Joshua McNary [00:16:13]:
Absolutely. Yeah. That's, that's one of my, lines, you know, making sure we're focusing on the outcome, that we're trying to achieve because there are so many technology options available. If you're not really focused on that end goal, you're gonna end up down some weird roads, you know, potentially. Or or or just false false roads, you know, that are not really, paved with gold the way you think they might be. The and and that's related to what you're saying around the technology often is seen as the prize. That's also informed by marketing. And since we both have backgrounds in marketing, I think, you know, we both can say that there's times when that marketing can go awry or maybe it's not even meant to speak to the person that is trying to implement it, but it's it's making promises that don't really aren't really going to resolve their problem at the end of the day.

Joshua McNary [00:17:00]:
It's usually getting to the bottom of the, of the actual need and then applying the technology upon that is the approach I like to take. But I do think there's something else here kind of hidden in this conversation that, maybe we should note is I could see some people listening here right now and they're like, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I wanna start using that CRM or that calendar tool or whatever tool they are interested in, and they're applying this lesson to. And we're telling them, well, yeah. Just get started with it. You know, get started with it.

Joshua McNary [00:17:28]:
Have some strategy around it, which is what we were just saying. And then start get started with it. But then it opens a can of worms. Right? And that I think is also maybe some of the tension that we see here is that, because we're all busy, these important but not urgent matters get, you know, we don't wanna touch them. Right? Until they really are critically at at the critical level, which what what sounds like happened with your countering tool. But sitting back and maybe going back to what you're saying earlier about having that little bit of, away time in your business, that retreat time, right, to think about the big picture, that might be the solution you need to be able to create the space to make some strategy and maybe even do a work session on trying to build the thing or do the thing. I guess, I'm trying to bring together some of these ideas that we've been talking about today because there's there's definitely some, crossover in these different concepts we've been talking about.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:18:19]:
I agree with that. And I think something I well, something that I do hear a lot from, especially solopreneurs, people who are doing everything on their own, is they'll say to us, like, well, you have a business partner, so that's the accountability that you have. Right? Because I always use the example that me and Casey meet every Monday, and we go through our client list and talk about what we need to talk about for the week. And then every Wednesday, we have a creative Wednesday session, which is meant to focus explicitly on creative projects for the business. So things like, you know, creating a product or we're doing a retreat this October, and we're focusing around that and how we wanna build the designs around it and things like this. And we very explicitly keep those things separate because if we don't give the creative energy to the creative Wednesday, it's just not happening. And then separate from those types of, meetings, we also will do a monthly goals check-in and finances check-in. And here and there, we'll also schedule ad hoc things around growth or whatever we might need.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:19:33]:
But I think that if you're not a person who's super disciplined in your own self, like, if you are a solopreneur and you say, you know what? The reality is I'm not gonna do meetings like that. I may put them on and then I decide, like, you know what? I can just sleep through that meeting. It doesn't matter. It's just for me. I think, that's where things like having mastermind groups or net networking groups that you can create some accountability for yourself can come in really useful. I mean, even some people have told me that they'll work out of coworking spaces that have some of those types of communities built in. And I think part of all of that is being realistic with ourselves about the type of work we like, the type of ways we wanna work, our communication styles. We've even done, used a tool called the Enneagram to assess what our

Joshua McNary [00:20:29]:
I'm familiar with that.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:20:29]:
Individual. Yeah. It's it's a very cool tool. We work with a woman who does Enneagram coaching, and we've done the assessment for ourselves individually but also for our business. So Casey and I as a as co, owners of the business. And even that can be so helpful in just uncovering small pieces that can lead you to creating different structures. One of the ones that we found out about ourselves, because we're actually both sevens, which is the enthusiast Okay. Is that our, you know, expansive thinking and, you know, that that being part of that style can feel overwhelming to someone who is a different style.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:21:15]:
So helping people understand from a communication standpoint even is super helpful for this, like, I guess, foundation of what we're talking about here. And then knowing more about ourselves, which is a big part of our business, can help you then create your brand and your brand building, you know, kind of, structure and systems. I think yeah. But it's a very good point that you make of, like, it's it's not as easy as it sounds to just like, oh, just sit down and do the calendar tool. Why not? For some people, that can feel really daunting and complicated.

Joshua McNary [00:21:54]:
Well and if you know your personality type, whether it be, you know, endogram or, you know, any of these little tool sets that you can use, and especially when you have an organization, you have your small business, but you have multiple people involved. You're understanding the dynamics of that can help with regards to that implementation of that technology. You know, you can kind of play off or maybe find where have this person do this thing or understand how to overcome the challenges of, that you're seeing in front of you around the technologies you're trying to implement based on that, those kinds of those kinds of tools. So I I think that, you know, is interesting kind of another angle on this whole, interpersonal level of this technology stuff that needs to be overcome even if, not to mention if you're a solopreneur, which is, you know, what we were talking about initially and just try to find the time you need to do. So I guess, can you maybe share a little bit about a tech related challenge, beyond the calendar and some of the other things that you've you've faced, whether it be for yourself or with a customer, and and how you overcame it, what tools you might have used to overcome that maybe different than something we've already talked about?

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:22:58]:
Yeah. Something that and this is a little bit in the the lanes of social media, but it's

Joshua McNary [00:23:04]:
Okay.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:23:04]:
Related to in the sense that, well, social media is technology, but also this idea of, like, scheduling tools and automations and things that a lot of people use in, you know, outward facing brand building. And so one challenge that we had as a business, but also a lot of our clients have, is how to feel in alignment with the tools that they're using both from a like, does that company support my beliefs? Mhmm. And, also, does what I'm creating align with my beliefs?

Joshua McNary [00:23:47]:
Mhmm.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:23:47]:
So, you know, if somebody is, for example, creating an automation where they're sending emails every single day about something they're selling, is that in alignment with how you as a person or a business want to be in the world? Like, would you do that if you using your coffee shop example, would you every day go up to the person sitting next to you and say, hey. I wanted to remind you again about this thing that I'm doing. I mean, if so, great. That automation series is for you. If that's not in alignment with how you wanna be in the world, then revisiting some of those, I think, is really important. We had a client once that was launching, an online course, and she had a newsletter. And she had not sent a newsletter, I think, in a few years. So she said, I have all these people.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:24:41]:
I haven't really talked to them recently. And when I launch my course, I'm gonna send updates every other day about the course. And we said, you know, something you might wanna think about is, you know, refreshing your list, sending an email to say, hey. I know it's been a while. This is what I'm up to now, and give people the option of whether they're still interested in what you're offering.

Joshua McNary [00:25:04]:
Yep.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:25:04]:
Yep. And then you could even have a separate opt in for people interested in that kind of course, and you could communicate to them. But, you know, it's stuff like that where, again, that's not the tool telling you you should send an email every day. That's you using the tool to do to get to this end goal of making people aware of this course that you're selling. But even just, like, taking a huge step back from that with all the all those pieces, do people really understand what their values are and what they are willing to do and what they're not willing to do? That in and of itself is an exercise we do a lot at the beginning of our strategic work with clients so that then we can find the tools that are right for them, not, you know, just say, hey. Get a calendar tool. Get a this. Get a that.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:25:56]:
Because those things may not be right for the type of business they're building.

Joshua McNary [00:25:59]:
Just because the tools can do the thing doesn't mean we should. And so you're coming you're coming at things from the the branding strategy side, of this from and then picking the right tools, right, to apply to their their ethics, their brand, their personal values. And and not unlike for me and my practice coming at it from a standpoint, like, what are the business outcomes we're actually trying to achieve here and then figure out the technologies to apply to that. And there's there's certainly an element of ethics and values and component to that that, at least with some of my clients, I'm able to get to that with them. Hopefully, they've done the branding work with you or other people like you, prior to that. So they kinda that some of that's kinda baked in already. But, but, yeah, I I I love that, idea, and it definitely aligns part of why we get along, I think. So I guess in your opinion, you know, what are some of the the biggest challenges facing businesses and clients or just the general Joe public around, technology today, as we sit here may having this conversation?

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:26:59]:
Well, I think there's that you said this earlier in one of your questions. There's this need to feel like you're always keeping up and, a need to be exploring every technology at all times. And I think that

Joshua McNary [00:27:14]:
There's at least the pressure. There's at least the pressure for not sure that it's real even though I'm a tech guy. But yeah. I'm

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:27:21]:
sorry. I

Joshua McNary [00:27:21]:
I had to get that in there.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:27:23]:
Yeah. You're right. I mean, there's a lot of external pressures that come at people. And I think there's a lot of, you know, this like, there's the comparison between me and the other business that's doing similar types of things. There's also the, like, the need for education around some of these things of you know, the the joke when I worked at a you know, the big communications agency was clients saying, like, I wanna be on Oprah, and I want my video to be viral. That was always the two things that clients would say. And it's like, you know, is your product really meant to go viral? Like, you know, this alignment with actually what they're offering and what the world is asking for. And so I think the one of the biggest issues that I see, especially with our clients who are smaller, is an overwhelm of having too many things coming at them at once and then this pressure to keep up or the the comparison game.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:28:24]:
And when when you can unhook from some of those things and actually create more space for living and creativity and rest and recharge, your ideas then, I think, benefit immensely or can, versus coming at things from the burnout.

Joshua McNary [00:28:44]:
Yes. Yep. Yep. And and and the of course, as we said, it towards the beginning of this conversation, the the technology does not, does not by its own default nature, help us with that those problems. Right? You know, you have to force the matter the other way. I mean, for instance, I have a application I've been, using again after having taken a hiatus from it for a while. It's Freedom.two. It's a it's an application that basically helps you block things.

Joshua McNary [00:29:09]:
And of course, many devices and things have, some kind of do not disturb or, you know, focus modes and things like this you can use, Apple devices, etcetera. I have these now. But this tool is, like, one on top of that because I'm a tech guy. I can get around, you know, the the blocks of the standard stuff. So this one lets me to really lock it down to another level. And That's great. I have I have to take proactive measure to do that as an individual. That's just me in my own head, let alone, again, a customer organization or, you know, someone that's not maybe as tech enabled as I am to be able to implement something like that.

Joshua McNary [00:29:42]:
So it's it's overcoming that requires the strategy, requires intention, it requires Yes. Taking time to figure it out, which is a theme of what we've been talking about today.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:29:51]:
Yeah. I think that intentionality is so important. We talked a little bit also about boundary setting of how you wanna use the technologies. Right? Like, you're talking about the thing that blocks other things. And something that we have in our contracts with every client is, a set of agreements that we've written, and, also, we open that up to the client bringing in their own agreements as well. Mhmm. But one of them is around communication, and we do not text with our clients. We keep everything on email.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:30:25]:
We schedule calls in advance. And what that allows us to do is unhook from that sense of urgency that Mhmm. A lot of times people have. And, also, it allows us to be more thoughtful, more organized. We use other communications tools like Marco Polo, which is a video messaging app, which we offer in certain, work relationships, and we like that for a variety of reasons. And we also, in our contracts, have a twenty four hour turnaround time for the Marco Polo response.

Joshua McNary [00:31:01]:
That's great.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:31:01]:
And we say to our we say to our clients, if there's something urgent that you put in Marco Polo and you want us to see it right away, can you send us an email? Because email is our primary form of communication.

Joshua McNary [00:31:14]:
Right.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:31:14]:
And it has been hugely impactful for us. And, just one quick other anecdote is that people a lot of our, clients and partners will say things about how they get really overwhelmed because their clients are texting them or, you know, they they missed a text. And I think, again, that's a place where technology isn't always supporting the work we're trying to do. Getting a text at 9PM when you're putting your kids to bed or you're

Joshua McNary [00:31:44]:
Mhmm. Mhmm.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:31:46]:
Unwinding from your day or you're at your workout class and then you come to this text that a client sends that they need this urgent thing is not necessarily supportive to the relationship and the end goal. Whereas if you can set these parameters from the outset and then have the technologies to support it where it makes sense, I think all in all, your your balance and your relationship to work, will be different.

Joshua McNary [00:32:13]:
Expectations is what I heard there. Expectations from you to your client and, of course, much of the conversation that we were talking about our own internal expectations around how we're using our technologies and and interacting with our fellow staff members and contractors and things. And that is so key to how you look at branding, how I look at technology, and how we need to look at these things because there are so many inputs coming at us on all levels and so many things changing all the time around, how we use technology and then how that interfaces with branding and marketing and all these things that you do too as well. So, that is a, I think a a good word to kind of summarize a lot of what we've talked about today and is is desperately needed to allow people to have take control back from, the crazy world that we live in and and use the technology for good, not, not let it control us.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:33:08]:
Yeah. That's very well put. And, I believe the expectation piece can come from both ends. Like, it can come from you to the client, the client to you, and even the technology being a player in that mix of what are we expecting these things to do and uphold. And then when they're not working anymore, let's be honest about that too and revisit it and figure out how we can find a different solution that works better.

Joshua McNary [00:33:38]:
Well, we're getting close to end of the show here, so I'm gonna get to our final question in a moment. But one thing you said that I have to bring out, we haven't actually said the AI phrase much during this conversation today because we were focusing on, like, human stuff here actually, which is great. But I think that, like, you made that comment about bringing the technology into, the conversation. I mean, and that's quite literally what the large liquid models are doing, is is bringing that in and and and I'm sure if anybody listens to this, you know, months from now, there's gonna be copious other, you know, interesting advancements that are going to happen. So that's that's a very quick moving train. But maybe you could speak briefly to that in the context of maybe this idea of expectations and technology because I'd love to get your opinion on that.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:34:24]:
Yeah. I've so we work with a lot of different creatives. We're creatives ourselves, and we also have designers and copywriters and a whole bunch of people that we work with. And so this is a conversation we have a lot around how do we use AI responsibly or, make sure that it's not replacing what work, you know, individuals are doing and can do.

Joshua McNary [00:34:51]:
Mhmm.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:34:51]:
And I think it really is my philosophy around AI is to learn how to use it to support and, you know, amplify what work we're doing, not, you know, put it in the the box of, you know, no thanks. AI can never help because I think there's a lot of really amazing uses of AI. There are some really cool ways that AI can save you time. You know, if there's I was just talking to a friend, for example, who's a lawyer who was saying that when they're doing discovery, there's thousands of pages of text and copy and being able to use AI not just to find something in in the the sea of papers, but also to help contextualize it against what's happening in the outside world, how that can help them then strategize around what they wanna say and how they wanna frame it. And I think that's a really good example because you're never gonna take that lawyer out of the equation. They still need to be there to show up to court and, you know, use their brain in the ways that they're trained how. And I think it's the same with things like creativity. You know, there's some really cool tools I've used and seen where you can actually create designs using AI, dictations and things, and I think that's cool.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:36:17]:
And, also, I still wanna have graphic designers that create

Joshua McNary [00:36:21]:
Mhmm. A

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:36:22]:
lot of our art. And, so I think there's there's a there's a definitely a use for it, obviously. And then lastly, I'll say about that, why wouldn't you wanna save some time when something can help you get to something quicker? I think that's great. It's the same way that, you know, people way back when when the microwave first came out, they were like, what is this? We used to have you know, it it technology is amazing in that way. I think as long as we're really, sticking to our own beliefs and mission and ethics when we're using those things so that they are not, you know, you're not plagiarizing something or you're not, asking AI to write something for you and then using it as your own words. So I think we can make space for it and learn how to use it in some really cool ways.

Joshua McNary [00:37:12]:
Goes back to leading the technology, not letting the technology lead you, which in the AI context is kind of a, you know, a bit of a minefield in here as we speak here today. That that ethically speaking, there's a lot of questions around that. But I think maybe the broader conversation that we had today, speaks to how we use technology. I mean, that's really what we focused on was how do we use technology in a way that, has the right expectations both from us to the technology and the technology back at us and such. And I think that's only gonna become more important, as we as we continue to work at these, new types of tools that are out there. Okay. So with that, I do want to get into our final question, if I can, with you. So, we ask, what is one actual tip that you would give businesses looking to better leverage technology here in 2025 and beyond?

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:38:01]:
Well, I think this is gonna underscore our whole conversation and also not surprise you, but starting with building out your core values and then using those to guide your choices when it comes to technology is the thing to do. Rather than have technology dictate what, you know, your your work looks like or feels like, using it as a guide and also leveraging it in a way that is in alignment with your belief system. I will say in thinking about all of this, and I said it earlier, but talking about rest and talking about recharge and creative energy doesn't mean always that you're doing more. Right? It's actually sometimes about doing less. And while that could be unplugging from tech, it doesn't have to mean unplugging from tech. It can mean building systems. It can be it can mean, you know, creating different, processes that allow you to have more time back in your day and operate with intention, like you mentioned, and clarity. And I I like this idea of rest becoming a form of your return on your investment and helping you to work smarter and live and work more sustainably so that you can be your true self, be your the best version of yourself, whatever that might look like.

Joshua McNary [00:39:29]:
This has been great. Where can people find out more about you online?

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:39:33]:
We have a website, and our website is wearebwb.com, a r e, not the letterr. And we also have a newsletter that we send out once or twice a month. And, usually, our newsletters then get added to the website archives, so our website's a great place to visit. And, you know, also, people can email me if they ever wanna have a conversation. Caitlin at we are BWB dot com. And feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn, Caitlin Fitzpatrick. If you look me up, there's a lot of me, so make sure to type BWB in there as well. But I'd love to connect on any of those platforms and keep in touch with with anyone that's interested to continue this conversation.

Cait Fitzpatrick [00:40:17]:
So thanks for having me.

Joshua McNary [00:40:18]:
Alright, folks. That's it for today. I'm Joshua McNary, and I hope you will join me again next time so you can learn how to become a biz tech superhero. Bye now.