BizTech Superhero

Joshua McNary: Welcome to the BizTech
Superhero, the podcast that empowers

you to unleash the technology
superpowers within your business.

I'm your host, Joshua McNary.

I am joined by today's superhero,
Maddy Osman, who is a content process

consultant based in Denver, Colorado.

Through her work, she helps content
teams streamline and scale efficiently

through optimize content operations.

Maddy is also the author of
Writing for Humans and Robots.

We will be discussing writing in the age
of AI and how she leverages technology

to promote businesses via text.

Maddy, welcome to the show.

Maddy Osman: Thank you
so much for having me.

Joshua McNary: So for folks just
meeting you for the first time

today, could you share a little bit
about who you are and what you do?

Maddy Osman: Sure.

Yeah.

So I'm Maddy Osman and I, I think your
intro captured a lot of it, but I guess

maybe some other pieces of the puzzle are,
I run an agency called the Blog Smith.

We work primarily with B2B technology
brands, so that'll, certainly be a focus

in terms of what we'll talk about today.

A recent.

I guess achievement of sorts is I
took my book that you mentioned, uh,

writing for Humans and Robots and turned
it into a LinkedIn learning course.

So another way that people can, kind
of like synthesize that material.

Not just written word,
but also video content.

And as you and I were discussing, I
just put up a, she shot in my backyard,

so I'm pretty excited about that.

Joshua McNary: All right.

So explain the, she shed a little
bit more about what, what that is.

I know what it is.

I've, I've thought I put it up in a he
shed in my yard, but, but explain to

the audience what you're talking about.

I.

Maddy Osman: Totally.

Yeah.

So essentially, I guess in my case, a
she shed is a place for, for me this

lady right here to have my own office
space that is separate from the house.

And, uh, really an attempt to
avoid having to move and, uh, have

a higher mortgage interest rate.

So just using the space we already have.

We toyed with a lot of ideas for it
ended up going with a prefab build, you

know, that another company created and
installed and I'm just really excited

to see where we take it from here.

I've got a lot of ideas and
a lot of a lot of work to do.

Joshua McNary: That's awesome.

Yeah, I've liked that idea of separating
our work and our life when we all work

from home a lot, or at least partially
a lot of people are working from home.

I know I work out of an office and at
home but having that additional space

that feels different even though it's.

Just in your yard or somewhere
nearby, is an interesting thing

in our kind of tech driven age of
sitting at these computers all day.

Let's get into the technology, and your,
as a superhero around technology and,

and helping businesses in technology.

Just explain a little bit about how
you are incorporating technology

into your business or for your
clients that you're helping.

Maddy Osman: Totally.

So it's, it's a little meta in that I
serve this like tech SaaS software as

a service audience, and I also use a
lot of SaaS tools to run my business.

And so technology has always been.

A really integral part of running
my business, running it remote,

running it online, running
it with an asynchronous team.

It's also a big part of understanding
the clients that I work with.

So it's not just using those tools
to serve them, but using those

tools really to understand them.

And then now, of course, in this
age of ai, it's adapting, you know,

what's worked for the past several
years for this totally new element.

I mean.

Really consider it to be kind of
like a, what revolution are we on?

Uh, like fifth or something after
industrial technological ai.

So yeah, it's just like a totally
new thing that I, I think the

really cool thing is like we're all
dealing with it at the same time.

There are no experts at this point.

We're all figuring out how to
fit it into our work and life.

And so that's, that's been a big
focus of mine, I would say recently.

Joshua McNary: Well, it's not only
that we're not all experts, but

the technologies, these artificial
intelligence technologies are kind

to trying to bring the bar down
so you don't have to be an expert.

Right.

It takes, it kind of takes some of
that technology elements or some of the

expertise things that you and I both have
have done in our own genres over the years

and trying to make it easier in a way.

But there's all of course, complexities
that come with it that then I guess we

probably always will have something to
do with our work one way or the other

Maddy Osman: Probably, hopefully.

Joshua McNary: But for those that
are listening that are, are, you

know, and trying to incorporate the
tools that maybe you and I are using.

So, any specifics you could tell us about
any tool sets maybe that you're currently

using or, or have used and maybe revolving
into some other newer tools based on

what's been changing in the marketplace?

Maddy Osman: Totally.

I'll focus on a couple things and you
let me know if there's anything else,

you know that's worth mentioning too.

But I think.

Like first of all, this area
of like automation, I've been

using Zapier to connect the dots
between all these different tools

that I've been using for years.

And the benefit of automation
in general is, you know, one for

one, it just reduces data entry.

If something happens in this app,
then, bring over that data or

make something happen in this app.

So that's a relatively simple
concept and I think it's.

It's a concept that has
been around for a long time.

Automation in some way, shape or form.

And now that we have ai, we can add a
kind of a level of, I'm gonna put in

quotes, intelligence to automation.

Because one thing I think that
people don't fully realize about ai.

Is reasoning and logic is
like not actually one of the

things it's very strong at.

It's, it's a bit of a misnomer,
artificial intelligence.

But what it's really great at is things
like recognizing patterns, uh, making

some decisions, you know, if you give
it some criteria and things like that.

Sentiment analysis.

Just things that are kind of rote, right?

Things that, that use those patterns,
for example, and so, so yeah.

Again, it's like you can add the way
that I think about it, maybe that's

relatable to like more of an IT
audience is like in programming, right?

You have to like kind of.

Think through every
step, every possibility.

And with AI it's not quite as rigid.

You can give it more guidelines and
you can say, Hey, take your best guess.

And, you know, lead it down a path.

And so I think that's where the real
opportunity is, is being able to sort

of build systems but that, that are
very flexible and that don't break.

You know, when you hit that edge case
that just doesn't make sense because

it's never dealt with that before.

AI can navigate that a
little bit better then.

Our traditional idea of
software engineering.

Joshua McNary: Absolutely.

I mean, a lot of the conversations I've
had lately have alluded to the fact

that I've actually had people say to
me seen people say in, in conversations

around artificial intelligence lately.

Isn't this just really automation
that's what it feels like because a lot

of the conversations are, okay, what?

What should we automate?

essentially that is where the
conversations are leading to, because

there are so much you can do with our
artificial intelligence, you can kind of,

because it's more vague, it's fuzzy logic
in the sense is the term we used to use.

It's fuzzy logic when you have some
kind of artificial intelligence

kind of helping make decisions
or help direct traffic around an

Maddy Osman: Right.

Joshua McNary: So.

If it could do that, well then
what are we even trying to do here?

it kind of becomes very
confusing in a way, right?

So that the conversations come back
to, well, what use case should we use?

How can we actually use it?

That makes sense.

What's the best use of this technology?

And that I think, is.

Interesting that it's we're almost
kind of coming full circle of it

back to oh yeah, this is automation.

It's just a more powerful automation.

So in a way, we almost need to
define things even more than we used

to, even though we were defining
stuff very specifically before with

rule-based automation in the past.

Maddy Osman: Right.

Yeah.

It, it kind of a couple things.

Yeah, it's having some experience
in automating, like with tools like

Zapier, but with other tools as well.

Even like the built-in automations
that you could use in a tool.

Like another one that comes to mind
is Airtable and no code in general.

It's like all of these things.

If you've used those tools in any degree,
and even if you start using them now,

that prepares you, I think, really
well for creating AI enabled workflows.

You know, enhancing your operations,
your existing operations with ai.

And then the other side of things,
which you just alluded to, is how

important it is to like, document your
processes, have standard operating

procedures, SOPs because that's
really like the intelligence, right?

That's that's where.

AI gets its intelligence and that's
where it matters to be an expert.

It's from these systems you've already
built and how you've communicated

them and how you've documented
them, and then it's just really

repurposing them in this different way.

Joshua McNary: But who wants to do
documentation or who wants to actually

make hard decisions around the process?

We're doing, I mean, for years
I've been saying to people,

Hey, technology is not magic.

I'm the tech guy over here.

Yeah.

But it's not magic.

There actually is logic and strategy
and business purpose behind this that we

have to apply to really be able to make.

But I, a lot of the, the,
the boom of, of AI has been.

It's smart, it could do things.

And it's the same story that we've
heard over and over and over again

through all those different, revolutions
you were talking about earlier.

Like that we've seen in our
lifetimes around technology.

So it's like the, the heart, we're
kind of getting that point in the life

cycle of artificial intelligence for
small, mid-size businesses where we're

realizing, oh, to make this really work.

We have to apply some of these tools
and techniques that maybe we did

before just in this new problem set,
this new way of using technology.

Maddy Osman: Right, and maybe I'm
the outlier here, but I actually

do love documentation, but maybe
that's the content person in me.

I do have a tool suggestion
for, for everybody who hates it.

And it's a company that I've worked
with in the past, it's called Scribe.

And so it's like, it's like a Chrome
extension slash desktop app that you can

install and you click record and it just
like captures screenshots of all your

clicks and then you can go in and add in,
you know, whatever direction you want.

So that's a really nice
easy documentation.

If you, if you don't wanna do it
fully yourself, at least get a

head start with a tool like that.

Joshua McNary: That's great.

That's, that's a great little tip for
those that are listening right now to

write that one down and check that out.

I know I've also recommended in
recent times I use Loom LOO m.com

for, my, just all my
screen capturing purposes.

I have used that for a number of years,
and they, of course, they've been on the

AI train as well, but they have some nice
features where you can record a video of.

The whatever, and then hit some
magic buttons and get a, SOP type,

similar to what you're saying.

And I haven't used Scribe directly,
but I've used other tools like that

in the past, so it sounds great.

I'll have to check that out myself.

Maddy Osman: I love Loom too.

It's, it's so great.

I mean, you, you have to kind of take
those barriers away, I think when it comes

to documenting and, and delegating, right?

If you work with a
team, or even if you're.

Communicating with a client and I am very
meeting averse, so I will always use the

tools that will help me get out of those
things and, and capture that knowledge

too that I could go back, and refer to it.

So LI is great, especially 'cause it
also automatically generates transcripts,

it has editing tools built in, so I
use it for a ton of things as well.

Joshua McNary: Well, not only are we
saving ourselves a meeting, but we're

helping them save themselves a meeting

Maddy Osman: Right,

Joshua McNary: I think LOM actually
sends like a weekly email, how

many meetings did you save this
week or month or something like.

That.

And it's like, yeah, that's, that's great.

That's, that's part of why I started using
those tools and it's great, it is great

to be able to document things for long
term and be able to go back and reference

yourself or let your clients download
that training you did or whatever.

That way, where they can document it.

Maddy Osman: A hundred percent.

Joshua McNary: Let me ask in our
question around artificial intelligence,

since we're kind of on that, on
that subject today, the idea of.

AI first companies for a AI
add-on companies, let's just say.

I mean, loom is kind
of an example of that.

They've always been kind of a
progressive company, but, and

I'm not just talking about them.

There's many, many in this, the same
boat as them, but they were around before

ai, before the big, the big, big amount
of AI stuff in the last couple years.

Okay.

Maddy Osman: Mm-hmm.

Joshua McNary: Now they've sprinkled on
ai, all the different apps have the little

ai, ai, magic, the little magic icon.

So it even makes it feel like
it's supposed to be magic,

And that just adds to
the confusion for people.

But anyways, they have that little AI
icon, and then you've got companies that

are either developed home, new product
lines, maybe the bigger boys like Apple

or Google or Salesforce or whatever.

And then.

Then you've got actual startup companies
that are starting from the position

of using artificial intelligence
as the core of their business.

So based as a user that have done
this stuff for many years using

different technologies in your area of
expertise, how do you feel about that?

Or have you thought about that?

Or have you seen that play out anywhere?

Maddy Osman: Yeah.

Let's see.

How do I sort through my feelings?

I guess like my first reaction
to that is I sort of resent the

companies that that added on, right?

Because part of it is like
an investor appeal, right?

We gotta keep up with the Joneses.

We gotta, we gotta have something,
you know, that says we use ai.

So there are a couple tools that I
use and it's, and it is an add-on.

You have to pay extra for
it and it's glorified.

Custom GPT stuff, you know, it's,
it's things that you could use

another tool very easily to accomplish
the same thing and not pay double

price for, and I think that that's
like a big what's the word for it?

It's, it's just like a big, it's
something that can, that be,

can become like a huge spending.

Black hole, I guess for companies
and for small businesses that are

intrigued, right, by all these features.

But it's like fundamentally, many
of them do the exact same things.

So another good example I think
is I've been really getting

into vibe coding lately.

My background is as a web designer,
but software development is not

something that I have experience in.

And so these tools help me bridge the gap.

And there are some things that
they're, they're really good at

prototyping, building features, and then
sometimes it gets to the part where.

You get an, like an error loop, uh, or
even like building the initial prompt

that you're gonna feed into that model.

I find using a tool like chat, GPT
is really effective for basically not

having to use my limited credits on
those tools to solve some of those

problems and even more effectively
than I would do in the tool itself.

And so that's just like kind
of a thought for, for all

these different tools is that.

Be careful about double ping really for
what are fundamentally the same features.

Every tool has its own thing, right?

And, and the benefit is that it's
connected to that data source directly.

But there are ways to bring that together.

And so again, it's you kind of have to
set a budget for yourself, and it's good

to experiment and it's good to play, but
you also have to, just like you always

did with SaaS tools and shiny new things,
you have to kind of like pick things.

And you know, maybe you only experiment
with a couple things a month, right?

So you're not really doing an
annual subscription, but you're

doing like a monthly one at a time.

So that's a thought.

And then.

I do think it's very interesting, like
the AI native companies, and one that

comes to mind is every, so they have this
like editorial sort of approach, I think

to just like marketing in general that
I, that I love as a content marketer.

And it kind of humanizes this idea
of like how we bring AI into our

work lives, how to think about it.

But they, but what's really cool
about them and, and ultimately

how they monetize is that they.

They're self-described like non coders,
but they've built this business of

these different AI enabled apps.

Like one of them is called Monologue
and it's like a voice to text tool,

you know, that lives on your computer
and you can store all your transcripts.

It does a pretty good job with
taking the stab at formatting things.

And that's again, something
that they built kind of as vibe

coders at the end of the day.

And so I just think that that's really
interesting that they're speaking,

you know, from their own experience.

They're, they're editorializing
that process of how they discuss the

tools they create, but they're also
creating like really useful things for

people who want to, to work with ai.

So yeah, there's, there's
definitely a spectrum.

But yeah, there's like a couple,
there's a couple of companies like

tools that I use that come to mind
and I'm like, there's no way that I'm

gonna pay extra for your AI features.

I could do the exact same
thing in chat GBT, with just

a little bit of extra effort.

Joshua McNary: Again, it's kind of
back to the future a little bit because

we've always said, Hey, watch those
individual spends that you're doing

all the tools, are you doing add-ons?

Or they're at least justifying
their pricing cases based

on these things or whatever.

So there's an element of that
from what I heard from you.

And then I also heard the
idea of if you're going to use

artificial intelligence inside of.

Maybe a legacy tool of some form.

Make sure it's actually providing value.

Or if you're choosing an AI
first one, they, you probably are

because they're providing some
kind of new value that wasn't

Maddy Osman: right, right.

Joshua McNary: So that's something to kind
of keep an eye on as a business owner,

as a business, someone working inside a
business to recognize that distinction.

And then, of course, keep an eye
on your, your accounting system for

which, what SAS tools or software tools
you're spending on, and which ones

can come and go over time, which you
should be doing anyways, from the past.

Maddy Osman: Yeah.

I'll add on another sub thought
here, which is you mentioned

a couple companies that are.

Maybe in the middle of the spectrum,
right, where they're pioneering AI

tech, it's, it's maybe not so much
an add-on and it's maybe not so much.

The idea that, grew their
company to where they are today.

But I am seeing a lot of instances of
companies that are kind of like throwing

out what has worked really well for
them, their, their people, capital.

In favor of the promise of ai,
but not necessarily the actuality

of AI as it stands today.

Salesforce is a company that comes to
mind with that and you know, they have

been in the news for, firing or laying
off essentially like half of their

staff and talking up really their agent
projects or product, I should say.

Like all the possibilities that
that has in terms of streamlining

your workforce and whatever.

And there's just something, I think
especially about Salesforce and this whole

like ohana culture and like being all
about your employees, that feels, first of

all just a little inauthentic about that.

But also, you know, on the other side of
things, they themselves have put out some

research where they've talked about the
fact that this experiment, I guess we'll

call it, i'm gonna, I'm gonna summarize,
and I'm not gonna get it a hundred

percent correct, but they've found that
their agent products in situations where.

Task, you know, had like
more than one thing to do.

Like it was a, a level of
complexity, more than sort of

Zapier, if this and that, that's it.

Automation, that it was only like
30% effective or something like that.

And so again, I think there
is a ton of potential.

I think that we should be experimenting
in tandem with the human inputs

and the robot inputs and figuring
out like what that perfect.

You know, median point is or whatever.

But I think that it is a mistake,
and this is something that I've seen

in my industry and in my business to
just completely throw away what works.

Knowing that AI is, is very much
a fledgling technology right now.

There's a lot of really cool
things that we can do with it.

There are also a ton of limitations,
like the fact that it is factually

incorrect especially in content.

The fact that it trends towards the
average, especially in content like there,

there are, and like I said before, the
whole reasoning and logic thing, you

don't wanna outsource your thinking to it.

You wanna use it as a thinking
partner, but that's not how everybody

is looking at it or using it.

And so.

I try to be, I guess, the voice
of reason, and I have definitely

changed my mind about ai.

I see a lot of great things that
could come with it in terms of

integrating it into processes and
things like that, but it's still

very much backed by this is, the
expertise that is driving how I use it.

Joshua McNary: Well Coming from
someone that's in the writing space?

No, I'm not surprised
to hear you say that.

And I mean, I think we all need
to be reminded of that because for

those that are listening to this are,
they're small, mid-sized businesses.

For the most part.

The people listening to this aren't,
doing the wholesale, layoffs of people

like the big guys might be at this point.

But there is a tendency to
say, well, hey, could I.

Could I get some more out of
this tool here to maybe allow

me to not hire that next person?

Or, how can I, maybe the better way
of thinking about it's how can I

augment the existing people I have?

I think that's the more positive
way to be thinking about it.

And I think that's what you just
alluded to with regards to writing.

How can I use this to
augment what I'm doing?

So with, with that in mind, I'd
like to go back maybe to your, your,

your book a little bit, which is
talking about humans and robots.

And, and, and, and based on that and
or just your experience working with

clients, can you maybe share a little
bit about any specific use cases or

things you've solved using technology
in general or artificial intelligence

and, or bring out some stories from the
book or, or something to that effect.

Maddy Osman: Totally.

Yeah.

So first I'll mention that I
wrote the book before AI was like

a commercially available thing.

So people think like writing for robots
is maybe like the AI robots, but I'm

really talking about the Google spiders.

So in the book itself,
I, I don't, I like just.

Barely touch on ai, but in the
LinkedIn learning course that I

created, I added some new chapters.

So if people want to dive into that
side of things, I would highly recommend

checking that out and then check
out the book for the fundamentals.

But yeah, and I'll probably speak to
this mostly from that AI perspective,

because that's just what's top of mind.

Again, I think, and I hear this from
a lot of content marketers, it's like

the idea of not starting from a blank
page, that's probably the worst thing

that you can do with AI, is let
it populate that and then just be

like, okay, yeah, that sounds good.

Yep yep.

Keep going with that.

Okay.

Now turn that outline into a draft.

All right, good to go.

That that can be, I think,
a really dangerous path.

What is better, and maybe I'll describe
kind of parts of my process here.

So for me, I like to record myself.

I like to use voice memos when I'm
writing something that, maybe I'm like

bringing a couple different pieces of
just details and thoughts and whatever.

I'll just kind of like ramble, like
I'm on the way to pick up my kid from

daycare, and it's just a good time to
kind of, you know, sort through what I'm

thinking for, you know, an upcoming topic.

So I'll take that.

I'll pull it into a tool like
fireflies that'll do transcriptions

or you know, anything like that.

And I'll take that transcript and then
I'll feed it to chat GBT and say, Hey,

this is really my ramblings about.

Specific blog that I wanna
write, so help me organize it.

I think that these are the different
sections, but you know, I'll take

your suggestions after you go through.

And so it does that first step
of just like organizing it

after the AI has transcribed it.

And one thing I think that's really
important with writing is like there

is no effective one prompt to like
final published piece workflow that

myself, or like any other content
marketers that I've worked with, heard

from that are sharing their processes.

Uh, that works.

And so it's better to atomize
the process and to do, you know,

like one section at a time.

Okay.

Now we have an outline.

Now that we have the outline one section
at a time, let's write the draft.

And that's a best practice I think
for using something like Chachi.

BT in general, for any type of process,
you kind of wanna do a piece at a time.

You wanna build that skeleton and then you
want chat GBT to take it to the next step.

Other ways that I'm using tools like
AI in my process, especially writing I

use it as like a first line of defense
fact checker, but again, we'll caveat

that by what I've already said, which
is that it's confidently incorrect.

So you can't inherently
trust anything that it says.

You have to also do
your own fact checking.

But I do using a tool
like Perplexity to go in.

And I'll take something that I've
written, you know, that just like maybe

I haven't substantiated it fully and
I'll say, is this a fair thing to say?

And then see, you know what it comes
back with what citations it gives.

And that's why Perplexity is great.

It's very citations based, whereas chat
GBT, you have to beg it for CI citations.

So perplexity will at least give me
some things that I can go and look on

the site, see if it's credible, see
if it's recent enough to be a good

source for that particular topic.

And it'll give me that first answer.

I think what's useful about it is if
it says no, that's not fair to say.

And then I can go and, you
know, do more research.

And I'm not second guessing myself.

I'm just like, okay, you know,
this needs to be dug into more.

So I think it's really great for that.

It's good for poking holes.

You still have to, complete that
circle yourself, but that's another

great thing that you could use it for.

Yeah, I would say like meeting
note takers, chat, GBTA tool like

perplexity are some of the big ones.

I also really Claude from
like a writing perspective.

It helps me a lot with short form content.

So I'll come with, I'll come to
it with an idea for a social post,

like something that I wanna share on
LinkedIn, even an article I've written,

and just to say, here's the article.

I wanna write a LinkedIn post.

Here's a couple things that I
wanna pull out from that article.

Here's who I wanna tag.

Go crazy.

And then inevitably I'll have some
edits for it, but it's just a nice

way to kind of, again, I think my
process is like taking jumbled dots

and like making them make more sense.

So I'm coming to it
with those ideas, right?

Like even the article I
wrote those are my ideas.

And so in my experience, that's been
the best way to use it is starting with

an idea, using it as a thought partner.

Using it.

I think it's really great at repurposing
content from one format to another.

So again, that starts
with the original idea.

I guess that's my refrain.

Start with originality.

Use a tool like Chat g, BT, or
Claude or Perplexity to help you

take it to whatever that next step
is that you need to take it to.

Joshua McNary: Taking a step back and.

Thinking about what you're
trying to actually do with

what the intent of using this

Maddy Osman: Right.

Joshua McNary: I mean, we were talking
about that earlier in a different context.

Now you're talking about it in the
context of writing, which is what you do.

And, and we all write, so
it's all relevant to us.

I mean, I use, a simplified
version of the process.

You do, but around my e-newsletters.

And I very clearly state that I use
artificial intelligence to help me do this

right in the subtext of my newsletters.

But I also, I mean, it's the idea
that I'm in, I'm in the loop.

I'm actually the one
generating the initial idea.

And then at the end of the day, I'm
the one editing and stamping it as,

Maddy Osman: Mm-hmm.

Joshua McNary: mine.

And I think that's
important to still be doing.

And we always have, we used, maybe we
used a fancy spell checker before, or

maybe we, used a friend or an intern
or something to help us edit the thing.

Now we're.

They're using these tools to
help us do it at a level that

we just haven't done before.

And of course, there's a whole bunch
of ethical and legal and privacy

and all those things out there that
we don't have time to talk about

today that relate to all this.

But you know, where most business
professionals are today, you and I

included, is, we're using these tools
in the way that we think are, is,

makes sense for how they're, what
they're capable of doing and what.

Is ethical in the sense of what's
happening in our space and what we have.

We kind of have to do, just keep up
just like the magical thing, but in

a more, hopefully, in a more holistic
way and a way we're thinking about it.

Maddy Osman: Yeah, I love what you said.

A couple just like sub thoughts of that.

I think, yeah, you have to kind
of figure out like what are your

personal ethics with using ai?

What's authentic to you and
how, how are you transparently

sharing that with your audience?

And then I think the other big thing
that's important for everybody to focus

on really, regardless of how they use
AI or what industry or whatever is like.

Especially if this isn't like a research
task and it's client facing or, or it

has this ability to like impact people.

If we're thinking about, I don't
know, like the medical industry

or just something like that.

There has to be a human in the loop.

You can't just set it and forget it.

There has to be somebody who's
actually reviewing the outputs.

Even again, like if you're.

Working with a set of data or something.

It's like it's not enough to just give
it the logic, have it run through and

just be like, okay, that looks good.

Like you have to validate it somehow.

You have to have a
method for validating it.

Otherwise, there could be people that
are hurt, even even know in something

more of a marketing function or whatever.

It's if people then use that data
to make decisions, but it's flawed

data like you are hurting them.

Joshua McNary: Mm-hmm.

Yep.

This responsibility is still there.

We're still the humans.

Putting things out, saying things, trying,
we're ultimately trying to help people.

That's part of what this show is about.

But, we we're also humans, we make
mistakes and the computers make mistakes

and maybe together we can, try to
improve that hit rate a little bit.

And I think that's part of what
we were talking about with these

tools is helping us to kind of
get to a better result quicker.

Maddy Osman: Sure.

Joshua McNary: and there are ways
to maybe use the tools in a way

that helps us avoid the pitfalls.

But yeah, if you just wanna
jump in and make these tools

work for you in a way that,

Is Automagic, you know you're gonna
lead, lend yourself to problems, right?

Ultimately.

Maddy Osman: Yeah, I think especially
like early on in designing workflows and

things like that, that's when you really
have to like test every possibility.

And if, if you're finding that, 99%
of the time the output is right,

then maybe you can step back.

But you have to do the work
to figure that out first.

Joshua McNary: Well,
Maddy, this has been great.

We're running low on time,
already went very quickly today.

I'm talking to kind of techy persons
in the marketing tech kind of spaces.

So.

I appreciate the, the time you spent
here, but let's go ahead and get into

the final question that I ask, everyone
on the show, and that is, what is one

actionable tip you would give businesses
looking to better leverage technology?

Maddy Osman: Yeah, let me see if
I can come up with something novel

compared to what I've already said.

Joshua McNary: It doesn't have to
be AI related necessarily either.

Just 'cause we talked about that a lot.

Maddy Osman: I had one and then,
and then we talked about all

my ideas technology, I think.

I think I've said this, but I think
it's a good wrap up, which is don't

get distracted by the shiny things.

There are so many exciting
things happening in the AI world.

My suggestion if, if that's the side
of technology you wanna keep up with,

is to find some great newsletters that
help curate those announcements those

different tools and things like that for
you so that you can cut through the noise.

With the lens of somebody who
does this as kind of a job.

And there are a lot of things that,
even the basic tools, like basic, but

not really tools like chat, GBT, they
keep releasing new features and so

oftentimes a lot of the things you wanna
do, you can do within a subscription

to, you know, one of those sort of
foundational, all in one AI tools.

So, so yeah, try not to get
distracted by the shiny things.

Use what you have before you go and
seek something new and have to learn

a whole new user interface, a whole
new way of interacting with it.

And yeah, ideally, I guess find something
that you can use in tandem with your other

tools so that you're not overspending
on those AI features you may not need.

I

Joshua McNary: That's a great wrap
up of a lot of the themes of the

conversation today, but, I can't think
you gave it a fresh way of saying it

there, so everyone can take, take the
messages home with them from this,

from this today, so I appreciate that.

This has been great.

Where can people find more out?

Try that again, Maddy.

This has been great.

Where can people find out
more about you online?

Maddy Osman: Absolutely, probably
LinkedIn is the best place right now.

So look for Maddy Osman, and then
a little French at the end of that.

And yeah, I try to share a lot of the
technology things that I'm experimenting

with, whether it's AI or other things.

So that's, that's the best way
to keep up with what I'm thinking

about and what I'm trying.

Joshua McNary: Great.

Thanks for joining me today.

Maddy Osman: For having me.

Joshua McNary: Alright
folks, that's it for today.

Be sure to subscribe to this
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Thanks for listening.

I'm Joshua McNary and I hope you will
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how to become a biz tech superhero.

Bye now.