BizTech Superhero

Joshua McNary [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the Biz Tech Superhero, the podcast that empowers you to unleash the technology superpowers within your business. I'm your host, Joshua McNary. I'm joined by today's superhero, Jen Moulton, president of CE Impact, based in Des Moines, Iowa. Jen and I will be discussing her firm's use of business technology to empower their mission to support continuing education for pharmacists and pharmacies. Jen, welcome to the show.

Jen Moulton [00:00:26]:
Hi, Josh, thanks for having me.

Joshua McNary [00:00:28]:
So, for folks just meeting you for the first time, could you share a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Jen Moulton [00:00:34]:
Sure, absolutely. So I am with a company called CE Impact. I founded it about 20 years ago and we provide continuing education for pharmacists and pharmacy technicians. So we believe that pharmacy teams exist to enhance the health and wellness of their patients and their communities. And therefore we create solutions that educate, develop and inspire pharmacists and technicians. So we do that on online. So we provide online education and then we do a number of conferences as well and do some in person, but mostly we do online education.

Joshua McNary [00:01:16]:
Great. Now you've been doing this for 20 years. So technology's changed a lot in 20 years. Oh, yeah. Going back to maybe towards the beginning wasn't more of the in person events and classes and that kind of thing. And then you've been continually moving towards more digital solutions as. As I know from our past conversations.

Jen Moulton [00:01:34]:
Yeah, yeah. It's funny that you asked that. I was just talking to some pharmacy students the other day. I've actually been in this business for about 30 years, but about 20 years ago, our company really pivoted. And that is because we went from in person education to online. And as I was talking to the students, you know, of course they can't even fathom that we didn't used to do education online, but that was definitely a thing. And I remember that, you know, what everybody wanted to do at that time was take the in person stuff and record it and put it online instead of really, you know, thinking about how we learn and, you know, using innovative ways to do that. So a lot has evolved throughout my career in education and I would say it's even, you know, a little bit hard to keep up on all of that because the ways that we, I think even me personally, learn and the way that I consume information, I feel like it's just constantly changing.

Jen Moulton [00:02:30]:
And so that's actually a challenge of a learning organization is to keep up with the way that different people learn and also the different generations of people who are all learning from you. You know, we have older people that aren't as familiar or comfortable with technology, and so they don't want to learn that way. We have different learning styles. So, in fact, we have a podcast also that is accredited for continuing education, and we've talked lately about making that available in multiple formats. So, you know, we record podcast, but we also, if people are visual, they can watch, you know, the interaction. Or we also have a transcription so people can read it if they don't prefer to just listen. So all of that, you know, makes it super interesting. And technology is definitely something that we feel like we have to keep up on every day.

Joshua McNary [00:03:19]:
Well, the text made it both easier and harder. As I think about my background and education I've went through in that. I mean, back in the old days, we'd literally have the three ring binder. Right. Of all the materials from a conference or something like that. Well, nowadays that might be on an iPad, a PDF or something in some capacity. And not to mention the newer tools that allow us to summarize those PDFs and actually use them in a way that we would practically use for putting that three ring binder in the corner of the library, which is what happened to them usually back in the old days. But then also being able to summarize and maybe transform that material into something else, Changing it from the text to the visualization as you were talking about, or the audio content, or as you were talking about with a podcast, going from like a video to a.

Joshua McNary [00:04:06]:
To an audio to a PDF or whatever. That. That's. That's been really amazing to see in the last number of years with the AI revolution we've been going through and such.

Jen Moulton [00:04:15]:
Yeah. And it's interesting to be part of it on the other side, on the teaching side, because you do think about how people are learning. You know, for example, I have. My young son just graduated from high school, and we went to orientation last week, and, you know, they were talking about how students learn and, you know, they really encourage people to go to class. And, you know, kids these days, you know, don't always want to go to class, but they talked about, you know, the importance of taking notes while they're in class and, you know, that reiterating in your brain so that you can absorb more of that. And I, you know, I was thinking they're probably recording and using AI to transcribe, and that's their notes. But, you know, then you're also kind of missing a step in the learning process. So it's interesting as an education organization, you know, those are the kinds of things that we think about.

Jen Moulton [00:05:03]:
And how can we again, you know, kind of address different learning styles, but then also have those different modalities so that people are, you know, not just taking it in and spitting it out, but, you know, they're actually making an impact in their practice and actually using the information that we provide. So, yeah, there's a lot, lot that goes into it. And so much of it is technology, which, you know, 20 years ago we wouldn't have anticipated, but here we are.

Joshua McNary [00:05:25]:
I know from our past conversations as fellow business owners, we've talked about some of the things that you've been doing and that technological revolution you've really been proceeding with. It almost seems like every time I talk to you, there's some other kind of new tech angle and such. So I want to ask you kind of outright here, like, with that evolution from your pharmaceutical background and such into essentially a tech company leader. I mean, you have the specialty, your expertise, but you do. How do you. Do you view yourself in that way in any capacity? I mean, you're an educator, you're a pharmacist. You, you know, you have these kind of, these angles that you're coming from. But like, what about that component of.

Joshua McNary [00:06:05]:
Of seeing yourself as a. As a tech. A tech CEO of some form?

Jen Moulton [00:06:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. That is so interesting. And I've never considered myself that. I was actually a little worried about some of the questions you were going to ask because I have a whole, you know, people on our team that do all that tech. So I'm not exactly sure everything that we utilize, but I think it's a really interesting question from a small business standpoint. You know, we were talking the other day that when we started this company, when I started this company, it was an education company. And we thought of ourselves as creating content.

Jen Moulton [00:06:38]:
And as we advanced and we built a learning management system, like not we, but, you know, we hired somebody to build that learning management system custom for us because we didn't find anything on the market that would suit our needs. And so we, you know, then I think, you know, we kind of started saying we're also a technology company because we have this learning management system that we keep up on a daily basis and, you know, deal with all those tech issues, even though we have a fractional CTO that's outside of our organization. And then we're also a marketing company because all of our, you know, most of our content is online. And so figuring out how to market that. So from a small business standpoint, I'm not sure that you can just be one thing anymore. I think you have to have that technology component. You have to have that marketing component, the sales. I mean, all the things.

Jen Moulton [00:07:27]:
And that's probably a hard lesson that, you know, that I've learned being a small business owner. It's tough because you don't necessarily have a division for each of those things. When you have 12 people on your team, you know, each of you kind of does one thing. So from a technology perspective, it. It has been difficult. And I wouldn't call us a tech company, but I think you're right. We probably are, you know, partly a tech company, but I would say that about every company anymore, I think you have to be a tech company or you're not really going to make it. I mean, even somebody who's a brick and mortar, you know, has to have that technology component in order to compete in efficiency and, you know, all the things.

Jen Moulton [00:08:05]:
So, yeah, it's an interesting way to think about it. I hadn't thought about it that way.

Joshua McNary [00:08:09]:
Well, this is the tenth episode of the BizTech Superhero podcast, and I've talked to lots of different types of people from all different angles, and I think I could probably have asked that same entrapment question to any of them and saying that, are you a tech company? Because some of them literally are. They would consider themselves that. But we all are touching technology all day long here in 2025, and if you're not implementing that in a powerful way, you're going to be behind. So, yeah, I concur with you. But, yeah, I think you described it as well as I could with regards to how the marketplace really plays out now with regards to tech and how we have to lead our companies in that way. Whether you're not. You're a business technologist like me, or you're running a education company like you.

Jen Moulton [00:08:51]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think it's, you know, I think that's something that I've thought about, you know, even, like, raising kids. I'm like, everybody needs to know how to code. Like, I wish I knew how to code, because you, at least if you're not the one doing it, you need to be able to speak the language. You know, that's been really, you know, some of the tough parts for us are having to create a learning management system, and we didn't have the inside knowledge about what we were doing. Like, I knew where we wanted to go and what I wanted it to look like. And how I wanted it to function, but I didn't know what was needed to get there there. And I think that really set us back a lot of times.

Jen Moulton [00:09:26]:
I think we've probably spent more money and spent more time than we needed to along the way because I didn't inherently understand how it worked necessarily. So that's, that's my advice for anybody who's got, you know, kids that are still going through it, I think they need, you know, some component of tech knowledge in any business. You know, we. I just was watching the Today show this morning. They were talking about AI and you know, the founder of AI is worried about our workforce. And I think the worry is really that you don't know how it works or how it plays into your business more so than, than being able to, to use it. You know, obviously you need to be able to use it, but I think the, the important thing is knowing how it works and understanding how it functions within your business. So that's, that's a huge skill that, that, you know, we didn't need 20, 30 years ago.

Joshua McNary [00:10:14]:
Connecting the dots is, is the, is the thing that you're doing as a leader. And I know, I see in my work trying to help people connect dots. And so that's, that's all good advice, I think. Now I'm kind of curious now for your specific situation because you've alluded to this a few times because you have this LMS system that you've evolved over the years, and it sounds like you have your various team members working on aspects of that and certainly loading information into it and servicing that for your customers. You mentioned you have a fractional CTO of some form that's helping you. So can you just talk about kind of how you maybe more specifically kind of have connected the dots? Are there any additional lessons or stories or situations you could talk about with that kind of gives more context what you're talking about to be able to be successful at a, at an education model online here, here in the 2025.

Jen Moulton [00:11:07]:
Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, just trial and error has been an interesting part of this business of, you know, owning a company and not really knowing. You know, when I first, you know, I founded the company, but it was within another organization. And so when of outright bought it about 10 years ago, I found myself like, I, you know, I'm a pharmacist by education, so I don't really know how to, you know, run a company and for sure didn't know the technology side of it. So it's Been a lot of trial and error. Sometimes I think you need to go through that. You know, have I. You know, it's like if I knew now whether or if I knew then what I know now, I would have been much better off.

Jen Moulton [00:11:48]:
But sometimes you have to go through the struggles to get on the other side of it. I think probably the biggest thing for us is finding that fracture CTO and partnering with another organization that. That's all they do. That has been huge for us because we, when we initially built our custom learning management system, we partnered with the technology company, but it was, you know, they were. We hired them basically to create that. And then we worked with an offshore group for some time and kind of ran into, we work with a lot of schools of pharmacy and so they have really high standards and a few of them wouldn't contract with us because we had people outside of the. That were servicing us. So then we found somebody inside the United States and that has been a game changer for us because they have grown to understand our business and what we need.

Jen Moulton [00:12:39]:
And then they can pull in their knowledge from the tech side and, and also they brought in other partners. So they're really willing to say this isn't in our wheelhouse, but we know somebody else who we can bring in as part of the scope of this project or whatever. So, you know, right now we're actually working with an organization to build a, a better bridge between our learning management system and our website, which is where lives. So it used to live within our LMS and now, you know, with the world that just. That's too complicated for users. So we've moved that point of sale to the website. But then how those courses come over to the website and you know, then talk back to the lms, there's just so much there and that wasn't how it was originally built. So we had to hire an outside group then to come in and you know, they really focus on that.

Jen Moulton [00:13:27]:
So that's one of the things that I've really learned is you, not you. You can't hire one group that knows everything, but likely they're going to know the people who know the people and, you know, could pull that in. So finding somebody to work on your behalf, I think has been really critical for us. And you know, there's. They, they do that. That's what they do. They work with small organizations like ours. And so there's no way we could have afforded, you know, the team of people that they have and the specialization that they have, but to contract that out has been just a game changer for us.

Joshua McNary [00:13:59]:
So the, so the integration for the E Commerce side or the, the, the course subscription side of things that is being essentially kind of guided by the CTO or they brought in that other party. You didn't do a separate contract or you did a separate contract, but it was, it was kind of. It's all being led, guided by CEO, right?

Jen Moulton [00:14:21]:
Yes. Yeah. So the, the company that we work with is actually out of Birmingham, Alabama, and they are the ones that. The other. That contracted the other company. So we just end that we budget for that company on a monthly basis and it's, you know, of course we have our wish list and then we have the bugs that we need to fix.

Joshua McNary [00:14:39]:
Of course.

Jen Moulton [00:14:40]:
And so that wish list then just gets dwindled down, you know, as we have more bugs. So, you know, with that budget, they were like, okay, we can get you to, you know, point B in four months. Or if you're willing to put more money at it, we can get to it in one month. So, you know, that's just kind of what we, you know, sort of ebb and flow. We meet with them, we have regular meetings with them twice a week, depending on the work. Just, you know, they're just an extension of our team. So that's been really, really helpful.

Joshua McNary [00:15:07]:
Sounds familiar to me because some of these themes are things I do with my clients as well, with regards to the. The ongoing and moving towards these goals, setting these north stars, these guideposts out there, and then moving towards those over time. And sometimes you can do that very quickly based on budgets or based on various other aspects. And sometimes you can't. So sounds like you have a good perspective on that. I'm curious as to how you've got to be comfortable with that because I know that I've seen with customers of mine or other people I've talked to even on this show that these are big investments. This technology stuff is not easy or cheap. And there are a lot of compounding factors.

Joshua McNary [00:15:45]:
You obviously have seen that and grown to that point. Is that part of the answer that you've seen it go sideways? So now you understand the value of that kind of relationship you have now or what other factors that led into being comfortable with this kind of setup?

Jen Moulton [00:16:01]:
Yeah, well, I think one of the factors was the, the organization who. That built our original learning management system. We knew them, we trusted them. They, you know, they got to know our business because we worked with them for a number of years, and then we kind of outgrew that and they weren't really in the business of supporting either. They wanted to build and go. And so we, you know, over time it was like, okay, we're ready for the next level of part. And that's kind of when we went with this group out of India actually. And we loved them and trusted them and they got to know our business for a few years and then we kind of outgrew that.

Jen Moulton [00:16:38]:
Right, right. I think the most important thing is just is trusting them. And you know, we're remote organization, we're fully remote. So we have people all over the country. We're used to working with people in that capacity. So because they're not here and we can't like sit down in a room with them. I've never even met them face to face. We've worked with them for like five years.

Jen Moulton [00:16:58]:
What but getting them getting to know us and us trusting, you know, just trying a couple projects and I think knowing that they're not gonna like, you know, oversell us on something that we don't need or charge us too much for something that we could have gone somewhere else. So it's just building that rapport I think is the most important thing. Because now we know if we go to them with a problem, we know they're going to give us the most cost effective, time efficient solution. And you know, we didn't know that day one. So I think it's just really. And that takes time, you know, that can't be built overnight, but it's really valuable. And when you find that right partner that thinks the way that you do, you know, they're also really innovative thinkers. So you know, when I said hey, like, you know, we're jumping into this AI and they're like, okay, well we've got a guy that's been guiding us share that.

Jen Moulton [00:17:48]:
And you know, so all of that can happen sort of at the speed of trust because we, you know, we have a good partner in them. But again it just takes a little bit of time to develop that and find the right people. And we've definitely had some trial and error. A couple people that didn't work out. But our current group is really great.

Joshua McNary [00:18:04]:
Trust in technology. I mean that is imperative for any good technology partnership and even for you to your customers. Right. That they have to trust that the tool is going to be there when they want to log in and learn something. Or if you're selling to some organizations that's then distributing your stuff, that you have that trust. Trust. We have lots of trust questions Right now here at Technology, as we record this, with the technology continuing to evolve and continuing to become a bit more mysterious to us even than they were before. I mean, we've been all using these magic boxes here for decades, but now we're using magic boxes that talk back to us like they're humans or at least have that appearance.

Joshua McNary [00:18:49]:
And so there's a lot of questions around trust right now in technology. So I guess I want to turn our, our conversation here about kind of tech leadership. That's kind of where we've been sitting here in this conversation so far. I want maybe have you peer your eyes forward a little bit. How are you seeing for your organization, for the greater educational market, LMS world and, or just generally for business? The AI is affecting things. And maybe what's that next evolution going forward? You talked about jumping from provider to provider as you've grown. Maybe what's that next step that we're going to move into to?

Jen Moulton [00:19:25]:
Yeah, well, I mean, everybody is talking about AI, of course, and because it's impacting everything that we do, especially, you know, we create content. So for us on the content side, you know, having AI policies has been huge. So we've been really thinking about that for the last year and we've actually revised them like three different times already, which is crazy to me. I feel like, you know, we get something on paper and then we learn something new. And it's really about, you know, just making sure that we're super transparent to our learners in the healthcare space. That's really important. I think, you know, we went through a period of time that I can remember where promotion in, you know, medications was a big deal. You know, for example, pharmaceutical companies used to be able to provide continuing education, which now sounds crazy because it's obviously so biased, but there was a time when that was fine.

Jen Moulton [00:20:20]:
And then we came in, actually Senator Grassley from Iowa came in and said, we can't do this. Like they are, you know, they're biasing against their or for their drug. And so, you know, there was then this firewall created. And I think we're kind of going through a similar time with AI because we can use it to create content, but it has to be transparent that we have used it. It has to be peer reviewed to make sure it's evidence based and not just, you know, out there that somebody said somewhere that isn't backed up by research. You know, I think we're, we're seeing a lot of that now. Like, what is the research to back things up and people are becoming more, I guess, smarter about consumers of that are becoming smarter. I think they've always trusted healthcare and now they're saying, okay, wait, like, show me the evidence and show me why.

Jen Moulton [00:21:10]:
But there's also a lot out there that isn't backed up that people believe. So I think it's just a really interesting time for healthcare and education. One of the things that we just discovered, because we went through this AI policy creating and we created a policy and all of us on the team that use it on a regular, really daily basis, us have used something different. So, you know, we were like, you know, is it a policy for our company that we all have to use the same AI platform? And we initially said, no, we're, you know, each of us are familiar with something, you know, somebody has a little something more on the graphic side. Whereas I need, you know, words, other people need content and research and evidence. And so we created a policy that said, just let us know what you're using just so we can document it. Well, then we went to a meeting and they were like, oh no, you need to have a closed system because what you're doing is proprietary. And so you can't put that out into the world of AI.

Jen Moulton [00:22:06]:
So then we had to come back and revise that. Now we're all using the same closed system, which even in, we just did this two weeks ago. Even in two weeks I've seen the benefit of that because now it kind of gets to know us as a company and, you know, can really spit out exactly our. I mean, it's really kind of crazy and eerie and, and fun all at the same time. You know, that it's like part, it's like another staff member, honestly, like they, you know, they can be kind of that discerner of information because they're getting to know what we do and what, how we say it and who we are, what's our brand, what's our, you know, mission. So it's been kind of fun and also a little bit unsettling to see. But that's just how fast it's changing. I mean, literally within a month we have now two different, totally different policies on AI.

Jen Moulton [00:22:54]:
So we're evolving, I think, just constantly. So it's hard to keep as a small company. You know, we're really relying on. I feel like we've got somebody on our team who's just kind of always ear to the ground, what's next? What's next? Because it's just hard to keep up.

Joshua McNary [00:23:08]:
Is that how you would recommend those that are listening out there that maybe are a little bit behind where you're at to, to do this is to kind of just task somebody and their team to, to be on top of it or what. What would you recommend if, if they want to get to an AI policy or they want to figure out out a selection process on a. Some kind of private tool or some kind of at least licensed tool that's more safe for usage inside our organization?

Jen Moulton [00:23:34]:
Well, I mean, you know, we've just learned from talking to other people and what other people are doing. So I, you know, I've, I've tried to, you know, seek out like podcasts like this or organizations like, you know, what you're doing for people. I think, I think there are people that are really on it. We have worked with. There's another person here in Des Moines here who's done like a lunch and learn for our team, and she's really focused in AI and, you know, so she was able to give us some recommendations about, you know, here's the way we use it. What's the best system? You know, where would, where would you recommend? So I think just talking to people who have their ear to the ground is going to be the best, most efficient way to do it. Because we did do it internally and it's great. Like, we had one person who used it a lot and he said, this is what I think our policy should be.

Jen Moulton [00:24:19]:
And that was really helpful. But then it's also evolved based on what we've learned. So I think it's probably just another one of those things that you kind of have to seek out a partner who you know and trust to give you some recommendations. Unless you've got somebody on your team who's, you know, just really on it, loves to absorb all that information. But again, it's, you know, it's a little bit hard to keep up.

Joshua McNary [00:24:41]:
Documentation and process and policy like you're talking about in any technology has always been hard to keep up with. But when it's talking about AI, when there are new tools and options and things you could do with it literally every week, I mean, at this point in the last number of years, that's the kind of pacing we're talking about, especially with some of the primary frontier models that are out there, is even harder to keep up. And for a small business, midsize business that we're talking about, and many of the people I'm talking to on the show are in that category, many of the suggestions you're making, I think are great ones too to help us move forward. So yeah, listen to podcasts like this, not just this podcast, but all the podcasts and seek out new ideas and thinking about how as technology leaders inside of businesses that maybe didn't intend to be technology companies even how we can move forward and continue to stay on top of these things as best as possible.

Jen Moulton [00:25:35]:
Yeah, yeah. Another example that actually recently came up for us was and it made me realize that, that there's so much out there that we just, that probably we don't even know and there's a lot of misinformation as well. We were working with an organization that had some accessibility requirements for all of our education and it was at a level that we were like, I don't even know who could meet this requirement. I mean it was so great. It was for, you know, every type of disability. You know, you know, we just as a small organization, you know, even as a large organization, I think it would be hard to meet. So it made us think about internally. We were like, I don't know that they really know what they're even asking for.

Jen Moulton [00:26:20]:
You know, so sometimes when you are putting together policies, you know, there can be templates out there that are really high level and is it really what you need? You know, if, is there one person within a 100,000 person organization that needs that, you know, capability, is it, is it really doable from a partnership standpoint? We actually didn't get the contract because we weren't able to say yes, we can provide that, but we were unsure who could. So I think there's that too. There's not enough and then sometimes there's too much. So it's striking. That balance has been hard too.

Joshua McNary [00:26:57]:
Okay, well we're getting here. Towards the end of the show, we've covered a lot of interesting topics around this idea of technology, leadership inside of a small mid sized business, artificial intelligence, some things about education and way people learn. It's all been really interesting conversation here a little bit different that some of our recent shows. So I appreciate that. But I do want to wrap up here on the final question. So I want to ask you Jen, what is one actionable tip that you could give to businesses looking to better leverage technology?

Jen Moulton [00:27:29]:
Well, I think, you know, we talked a little bit about just partnering with someone who can really help you discern what it is you need for your business and what, what a doable budget looks like. I, you know, I think that's it. It's really been so much trial and error for us and you know, investing in technology when your budget is tight as a small company doesn't allow a lot of room for trial and error. But the more you can do, I think the better the end game will be. So, you know, we've made mistakes along the way of not spending enough and then having to go back and redo it, and in the end you end up spend more. So I think, you know, I guess the two things would be to really partner with somebody that you know and trust and that can really give you a. This is what it costs. It's not just what we're charging you.

Jen Moulton [00:28:20]:
It really is what it would cost. And then also just making room in your budget to invest in the right thing, you know, once you know what path you want to be on, rather than cutting it short. Because again, I think we, you know, we've, we've overspent because we've tried to be, be budget conscious. And in the end sometimes it just, it just costs a little bit. But I think it definitely gets you to where you want to be. So both of those things like good partner and having a decent sized budget that that allows you to do some things that can, can really advance your business.

Joshua McNary [00:28:54]:
Great advice. I know it's the final question, but I think I'd be remiss if I don't add this asterisk to what you said or additional item is to say phasing things out into pieces also as a way to solve for both those things you said. So if you phase out what you're doing into smaller pieces and make the scopes reasonable, again, not try to ask for too much. Kind of back to our earlier theme. Maybe in one big jump you take it into smaller pieces. Well, then you could test the partnership that you're trying to make and you could bring the cost down at least for that piece so it's something a little more palatable. So I just add that in there. And I don't know if you have any thoughts about those items.

Jen Moulton [00:29:28]:
Yeah, no, I think you're exactly right. And what I thought about when you said that is sometimes when you do the whole thing all in at once, things change along the way. The scope of the project changes or technology changes. And so sometimes doing it all at once isn't best anyway. Even if you have the budget for that and the right partner, we have found that when you do one thing at a time and take it into smaller chunks, sometimes that changes the next step in a good way. You know, it could be like, oh, we're halfway where we wanted to be instead of a quarter of the way. So yes, I think that you are exactly right.

Joshua McNary [00:30:03]:
Right. Well, this has been great, Jen. Where could people find out more about you and your organization? Online?

Jen Moulton [00:30:09]:
Yeah, absolutely. This has been so fun, Josh. Thank you for asking me to do this. They can email me, Jen ceimpact.com or online. We are ceimpact.com or on LinkedIn as well. So Jennifer Moulton, CE impact is what you could search and pretty easily find me.

Joshua McNary [00:30:27]:
Perfect. Thanks again for joining me to today.

Jen Moulton [00:30:29]:
Well, thank you. It was very fun.

Joshua McNary [00:30:31]:
All right folks, that's it for today. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast on any of the popular directories. Tell a friend about what you have learned here on biztech superhero and subscribe to my e newsletter@mcnarymarketing.com subscribe. Thanks for listening. I'm Joshua McNary and I hope you will join me again next time so you can learn how to become a biztech superhero. Bye now.